Mathis ProBowl?, Seriously? Options

[WVsNumeber1WR]

To everyone who argued with me about Mathis being a probowl CB and all that stuff you kept saying, today proved my point. He was burned over and over and over again by Johnson. I was watching the game from the stadium and had never been more surprised by how bad a WR made Mathis look.

He got hit with the stop and go, stop and cut, stop and slant, and etc. He should've had that dropped interception on the first drive but like other Jaguars today had the butter hands.

After Johnsons' two tds on Mathis today, and Mathis giving up plays please admit you were wrong.

[Krayz_Jville_D]

LOL... yep... chad johnson 37 yards were just DOMINANT!!! no CB in the league could stop that 2nd TD... mathis was draped on him, that was just an incredible play.

the guy follows #1 WR's all over the field, playing with the worst D-line in football, and still only gives up 37 yards.

mathis is EASILY a probowl CB, and he and brian williams are the only 2 guys right now that deserve ZERO scrutiny.

you look absolutely STUPID here, but what else is new? arent you the guy that told us jerry porter would be amazing for us? thanks buddy...

[Caldrac]

To everyone who argued with me about Mathis being a probowl CB and all that stuff you kept saying, today proved my point. He was burned over and over and over again by Johnson. I was watching the game from the stadium and had never been more surprised by how bad a WR made Mathis look.

He got hit with the stop and go, stop and cut, stop and slant, and etc. He should've had that dropped interception on the first drive but like other Jaguars today had the butter hands.

After Johnsons' two tds on Mathis today, and Mathis giving up plays please admit you were wrong.

Yeah, your funny, nice try, how much time did the Harvard stand out have to throw the football? Again, your secondary can only do so much, thats why Johnson got away with his comment about taking Mathis to church and making him pay his 10% because Mathis doesnt have the big, overpowering defensive lineman to add the pass rush to intimidate any receivers......

This front four is pathetic, you got Meier, about what? 32? Spicer? He's pushing 33? maybe 34? You got Hendersonless Ejectimus Primus, and Hayward whos probably close to pushing 30 now.....yeah....if im an oppossing offensive lineman, im asking all these guys when I get up to the line "Hey, isnt it past your bed time?" or "Would you like a nice warm glass of milk grandpa?" or, "Hey, did you break your depends today?".....

This team's age is catching up on the front four, and Harvey and Groves aint ready yet....its simple.....

[Jaxjagman2]

Putting the blame on Mathis is just wrong.Our nickel and dime package just plain blows.Do we have safeties?

[jagherd]

LOL... yep... chad johnson 37 yards were just DOMINANT!!! no CB in the league could stop that 2nd TD... mathis was draped on him, that was just an incredible play.

the guy follows #1 WR's all over the field, playing with the worst D-line in football, and still only gives up 37 yards.

mathis is EASILY a probowl CB, and he and brian williams are the only 2 guys right now that deserve ZERO scrutiny.

you look absolutely STUPID here, but what else is new? arent you the guy that told us jerry porter would be amazing for us? thanks buddy...

CJ completely torched Mathis late in the game. He left Mathis stuck in the mud when that horrrible QB from Harvard completely missed a sure fire bomb touchdown.

[jashank2005]

If you look at the replays, at the end of the game Mathis thought he had over-the-top help. He let Chad go. He wasn't chasing him.

Mathis couldn't do much on either TD. He had to cover half of the field for 5 seconds on the first one, and nobody was stopping that second score. The LBs and rest of the DBs couldn't cover anything.

Anybody who thinks Mathis isn't a top 5-7 corner in the NFL is out of his/her mind. Look at the numbers opposing team's top WRs have done against this team. And Mathis didn't shadow Marshall as Marshall was moved all over the field and played a majority of the game from the slot.

[Krayz_Jville_D]

If you look at the replays, at the end of the game Mathis thought he had over-the-top help. He let Chad go. He wasn't chasing him.

Mathis couldn't do much on either TD. He had to cover half of the field for 5 seconds on the first one, and nobody was stopping that second score. The LBs and rest of the DBs couldn't cover anything.

Anybody who thinks Mathis isn't a top 5-7 corner in the NFL is out of his/her mind. Look at the numbers opposing team's top WRs have done against this team. And Mathis didn't shadow Marshall as Marshall was moved all over the field and played a majority of the game from the slot.

wow someone who actually watches the games!! it certainly looked like mathis thought he had over the top help... wether he was supposed to or not we do not know. fact of the matter is he gave up 37 yards... you say o well the ball was overthrown and he was beat... well i could just as easily say mathis was right on CJ on both TD's but both were great throws that no CB could defend.

fact of the matter is mathis is a top 5 CB in this league no matter how you spin it... probowler from last year marcus trufant again today had a bad game... what else is new tho... no one cares about the rest of league around here, or atleast knows whats going on with the rest of the league

[copycat]

LOL... yep... chad johnson 37 yards were just DOMINANT!!! no CB in the league could stop that 2nd TD... mathis was draped on him, that was just an incredible play.

the guy follows #1 WR's all over the field, playing with the worst D-line in football, and still only gives up 37 yards.

mathis is EASILY a probowl CB, and he and brian williams are the only 2 guys right now that deserve ZERO scrutiny.

you look absolutely STUPID here, but what else is new? arent you the guy that told us jerry porter would be amazing for us? thanks buddy...

I just read your sig bet with Mad Dog. Dude TMD is looking pretty good.

[jagherd]

wow someone who actually watches the games!! it certainly looked like mathis thought he had over the top help... wether he was supposed to or not we do not know. fact of the matter is he gave up 37 yards... you say o well the ball was overthrown and he was beat... well i could just as easily say mathis was right on CJ on both TD's but both were great throws that no CB could defend.

fact of the matter is mathis is a top 5 CB in this league no matter how you spin it... probowler from last year marcus trufant again today had a bad game... what else is new tho... no one cares about the rest of league around here, or atleast knows whats going on with the rest of the league

Dont get me wrong - I think mthis is one of the best in the league,
but the way i saw it was the move CJ made left Mathis thinking inside route

[Krayz_Jville_D]

except for the part of houston being in the playoffs... and denver does not look like they will win their division, and the eagles and vikings do not look like they will be in the NFC championship game, and cleveland is just as bad as the jags, and the jags will probably lose more than 7 games... the only thing he's got right is the jags arent going to win 10 games

[WVsNumeber1WR]

Mathis was getting beat all day, I sat there and watched it play to play. He did not think he had over the top help because on the replay he instantly stops moving his feet when Chad puts his move, and then Mathis stumbles backwards and trips over his own feet trying to regain speed.

I never said I'm putting all the blame on Mathis because I am not, but I am tired of hearing this Mathis is a god CB, because he is not this year. I am not sure why, but no one on this team is playing pro bowl material right now, except for Scobee.

How about Nelsons' interception called back due to Groves offside again? Same as last week, but Nelson was def all over the field in this game.

[StAugJagsFan]

Mathis was getting beat all day, I sat there and watched it play to play. He did not think he had over the top help because on the replay he instantly stops moving his feet when Chad puts his move, and then Mathis stumbles backwards and trips over his own feet trying to regain speed.

I never said I'm putting all the blame on Mathis because I am not, but I am tired of hearing this Mathis is a god CB, because he is not this year. I am not sure why, but no one on this team is playing pro bowl material right now, except for Scobee.

How about Nelsons' interception called back due to Groves offside again? Same as last week, but Nelson was def all over the field in this game.

Mathis Sucks.....!

[Jagwires]

Mathis Sucks.....!

Can I get an AMEN??? Krazy I am not sure how your name calling and belittling flies under the radar but it really discredits anything you say. Are you really Rasheen behind the screen? I am personally tired of seeing him chasing after guys that beat him and then pushing them out of bounds. The 1st TD was all Chad putting the move on him. The 2nd hey it was a good pitch and catch but is he ever in a position to knock the ball out or put a hit on someone and bust it up? NO he is always 2 steps behind flailing around. What has coach been preaching week in and week out, too many big plays.


I put this in another post but I'll do it again here.

You can't pin all of this on the D Line. To put it into perspective the Redskins have 1 more sack than us at 10 yet their pass D is ranked number 11 in the league. The team we just faced last week has 6 sacks 3 less than us, guess what they are ranked number 8 in the league in pass defense. **** even the last place Chiefs have a better ranked pass defense than us at 18th with 4 total sacks! Where are we at 22nd? Now tell me how are they better? Scheme your boy Mathis and company or the D Line? I say the scheme/ coaching and the secondary. Seriously give me your genius on this?

[jashank2005]

Mathis vs. Who he covered this season

Wk 1: Justin Gage - 2 catches, 25 yds
Wk 2: Lee Evans - 4 catches, 77 yards; the long pass at the end was on Sensabaugh as everyone knows
Wk 3: Reggie Wayne - 3 catches, 74 yds
Wk 4: Andre Johnson - 3 catches, 38 yards
Wk 5: Santonio Holmes - 4 catches, 65 yds
Wk 6: He didn't shadow anybody, as Marshall was consistently put in the slot.
Wk 8: Braylon Edwards - 2 catches, 64 yds
Wk 9: Chad Johnson - 5 catches, 37 yds, 2 TDs

So Mathis has allowed two TDs this season, has never allowed more than 5 catches and NEARLY SHUT OUT THE BEST WR IN FOOTBALL. And he has scored as many TDs as he has allowed.

Starting in Wk 5, Andre Johnson has caught 46 balls for 524 yds and 3 TDs!

[Jagwires]

Mathis vs. Who he covered this season

Wk 1: Justin Gage - 2 catches, 25 yds
Wk 2: Lee Evans - 4 catches, 77 yards; the long pass at the end was on Sensabaugh as everyone knows
Wk 3: Reggie Wayne - 3 catches, 74 yds
Wk 4: Andre Johnson - 3 catches, 38 yards
Wk 5: Santonio Holmes - 4 catches, 65 yds
Wk 6: He didn't shadow anybody, as Marshall was consistently put in the slot.
Wk 8: Braylon Edwards - 2 catches, 64 yds
Wk 9: Chad Johnson - 5 catches, 37 yds, 2 TDs

So Mathis has allowed two TDs this season, has never allowed more than 5 catches and NEARLY SHUT OUT THE BEST WR IN FOOTBALL. And he has scored as many TDs as he has allowed.

Starting in Wk 5, Andre Johnson has caught 46 balls for 524 yds and 3 TDs!

Got some stats on how many times each guy was thrown to? That would tell a little more. I know in Cleveland he was thrown to only two times both for BIG catches.

[JAGFAN4EVER!]

You can't pin all of this on the D Line. To put it into perspective the Redskins have 1 more sack than us at 10 yet their pass D is ranked number 11 in the league. The team we just faced last week has 6 sacks 3 less than us, guess what they are ranked number 8 in the league in pass defense. **** even the last place Chiefs have a better ranked pass defense than us at 18th with 4 total sacks! Where are we at 22nd? Now tell me how are they better? Scheme your boy Mathis and company or the D Line? I say the scheme/ coaching and the secondary. Seriously give me your genius on this?

Can't argue with that!

[jashank2005]

Got some stats on how many times each guy was thrown to? That would tell a little more. I know in Cleveland he was thrown to only two times both for BIG catches.

It's easy to find stats on how many times a guy was targeted, but I don't know what that would tell. If your saying that Braylon was only thrown to twice, I think that would be in Mathis' favor. Braylon caught both, yes, but he was only open twice. Opposing QBs rarely adsfasdf the top CBs.

I'm not saying Rashean is the best CB ever. He is prone to double-moves. But have any of you ever seen a guy called Champ Bailey. He probably gets beat deep more than any of the top CBs. But its because he trust his skills so much that he is prone to thinking he can catch up when he cant. It still doesn't happen often. But the plays he makes more than make up for the ones he doesn't, and that is the case with Mathis.

[Krayz_Jville_D]

Got some stats on how many times each guy was thrown to? That would tell a little more. I know in Cleveland he was thrown to only two times both for BIG catches.

HAHAHAHA thanks for showing your ignorance... there is a reason he's NEVER THROWN ON... its called he always has his man locked down... you literally just made yourself look dumb. why am i not surprised?

btw, he covered harrison, who had 2 catches, and andre johnson had 1 catch for 4 yards on him while he was in, and against TENN, he gave up 0 catches... last game, he was thrown on 8 times for 37 yards... that is about a 4.6 ypa which would have been BEST IN THE LEAGUE for all CB's last year in terms of yards per attempt.

add to the fact he is covering teams #1 wr's every play with no pass rush, and the guys he is covering are getting barely any looks at all each game because of his coverage... he has 2 TD"s, and 3 dropped or called back int's... 1 vs denver, the called back int vs cleveland, and a dropped one this game.

you are clueless if you think otherwise... mathis is a top 3 CB in this league without a doubt. He is giving up around 5 yards per attempt this year, and thats covering better WR's than any other CB in the league.


The skins might have 1 more sack than us, but they also get more pressure than us... we dont even get pressure when we dont get sacks... you really look like a 5th grader trying to explain things here....

haha tell me again how mathis doesnt get thrown on, yet that is supposed to HELP your argument??? Lololololol

[jashank2005]

You can't pin all of this on the D Line. To put it into perspective the Redskins have 1 more sack than us at 10 yet their pass D is ranked number 11 in the league. The team we just faced last week has 6 sacks 3 less than us, guess what they are ranked number 8 in the league in pass defense. **** even the last place Chiefs have a better ranked pass defense than us at 18th with 4 total sacks! Where are we at 22nd? Now tell me how are they better? Scheme your boy Mathis and company or the D Line? I say the scheme/ coaching and the secondary. Seriously give me your genius on this?

Teams are significantly rushing the ball more against those teams. Cincy has been rushed upon 296 times, KC 270. KC is allowing more yards per attempt. So despite allowing less yards through the air on the game, they are allowing more yards everytime the QB throws the ball. I'd hardly call that better pass defense. Cincy has a better YPA than Jax, though. Cincy also has been rushed upon more than any other team. So they have a terrible run D, but a pretty good pass D considering how bad their run D is.

So, I'd say Cincy's pass D is better. KC's, however, is not.

I think much of that blame has to do with the LBs and DBs surrounding Mathis, though. According to Football Outsiders, the Jags are the 12th best team in the NFL against opposing #1's. Thats a direct reflection of Mathis. And that throws into account the Denver game, when Marshall played a majority from the slot against Brian Williams and Sensabaugh.

However, Jacksonville is 21st against a team's #2, 23rd against any other WRs, 23rd against TE's and 30th against RBs out of the backfield.

As a comparison, Denver is 24th against #1's. However, Champ rarely shadows a guy and has been hurt lately. Champ usually stays on the defense's left, where Mathis usually is unless Jack has him follow a WR, which he has done a lot of this season.

[Krayz_Jville_D]

Teams are significantly rushing the ball more against those teams. Cincy has been rushed upon 296 times, KC 270. KC is allowing more yards per attempt. So despite allowing less yards through the air on the game, they are allowing more yards everytime the QB throws the ball. I'd hardly call that better pass defense. Cincy has a better YPA than Jax, though. Cincy also has been rushed upon more than any other team. So they have a terrible run D, but a pretty good pass D considering how bad their run D is.

So, I'd say Cincy's pass D is better. KC's, however, is not.

I think much of that blame has to do with the LBs and DBs surrounding Mathis, though. According to Football Outsiders, the Jags are the 12th best team in the NFL against opposing #1's. Thats a direct reflection of Mathis. And that throws into account the Denver game, when Marshall played a majority from the slot against Brian Williams and Sensabaugh.

However, Jacksonville is 21st against a team's #2, 23rd against any other WRs, 23rd against TE's and 30th against RBs out of the backfield.

As a comparison, Denver is 24th against #1's. However, Champ rarely shadows a guy and has been hurt lately. Champ usually stays on the defense's left, where Mathis usually is unless Jack has him follow a WR, which he has done a lot of this season.

are those football oustsiders stats this year? is it on their site? very good stats to show these guys up, but they probly dont even understand them

[Jagwires]

That is some good info right there thanks Jashank. Where is that info at?

This post has been edited by Jagwires: Nov 3 2008, 10:51 AM

[Krayz_Jville_D]

nvm i found it.. ya marshall had 1 catch on mathis, and mathis came out of the houston game and andre johnson had some catches once he left.

keep in mind this is TEAM stats vs types of WR's... none of those teams have thier top CB shadowing a top WR 1on1 with no help like mathis does

[blaZin]

You can't pin all of this on the D Line. To put it into perspective the Redskins have 1 more sack than us at 10 yet their pass D is ranked number 11 in the league. The team we just faced last week has 6 sacks 3 less than us, guess what they are ranked number 8 in the league in pass defense. **** even the last place Chiefs have a better ranked pass defense than us at 18th with 4 total sacks! Where are we at 22nd? Now tell me how are they better? Scheme your boy Mathis and company or the D Line? I say the scheme/ coaching and the secondary. Seriously give me your genius on this?

The Jaguars' pass rush is non-existent. Your argument is based on one aspect, sacks. You're disregarding other fundamentals such as consistent pressure, defeating blocks, forcing double teams, etc.

[Krayz_Jville_D]

The Jaguars' pass rush is non-existent. Your argument is based on one aspect, sacks. You're disregarding other fundamentals such as consistent pressure, defeating blocks, forcing double teams, etc.

another great point. the D-line is the problem.. if people cant see this... wow

[WVsNumeber1WR]

Everyone knows D-Line is a problem, but once the ball is in the air a CB (who is as good as some say he is) should be able to swat it down, knock it out of a receivers hands, or intercept it.

Mathis has given up plays over and over again, and he looked horrible against Chad Johnson who really had not done anything at all this year.

He is not a top 3 CB, he is not part of an elite defense, he gets embarrassed week in and week out, and he drops sure interceptions.

Mathis, average, but not top 3 CB.

Let's see what the other CJ will do on him this Sunday coming up.